Ambitious Accountants Podcast

An Interview with Ric Thorpe:Sidekick Chartered Accountants

• Sumith Dissanayake • Season 2 • Episode 31

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What happens when a sales and marketing expert who "couldn't even do a GST return" becomes CEO of a 60-person accounting firm?

Sumith chats with Ric Thorpe, Group CEO of Sidekick Chartered Accountants, about scaling an accounting practice from a completely different angle.

Key insights:

  • Why "success isn't just being the best - success is just doing it" (lessons from ultramarathons)
  • Using RPA to save 30-90 minutes per tax return across thousands of clients
  • The "SWAN" hiring philosophy: Smart, Work hard, Ambitious, Nice
  • Pricing pitfalls that trap most accountants
  • Why being selective with clients beats the "wallet and pulse" approach
  • Practical SPIN sales methodology for accountants

Plus brilliant advice on outsourcing, client avatars, and why you need to "act like a human if you want to be treated like one."

Perfect for ambitious accountants ready to think differently about growth and client relationships.

Got something to say about the future of accounting in NZ? Let’s chat — you could be our next guest.

Email - Sumith@brisca.co.nz

Ric Thorpe: [00:00:00] So we are talking 10,000 tax returns plus, so much of that job is the same 10,000 times over across our whole group, and currently people do it now. We don't wanna replace the role of people, but if we can save them time, they can spend more time being people with our clients and adding far more value.  

Sumith Dissanayake: Welcome back to another episode of the Ambitious Accountant Podcast. Today I have a special guest from New Zealand, Ric Thorpe, Group CEO of Sidekick Chartered Accountants. Ric, thank for joining me today.

Ric Thorpe: Thank you. Great to be here.

Sumith Dissanayake: Right. Before we talk about accounting, I would like to start with one of the quotes that you have written on your notes, mate.

So you mentioned that, we should not be in race to win all the time. Talk to me about that. what's your perspective about that? Because [00:01:00] we all are sometimes trying to win, right? So that's our biggest stress. But you go to the race, but not to win all the time.

Ric Thorpe: Yes. yeah. I suppose my point about that was I've entered some ultra-marathons in the past, I've done these big challenges and, I see these people that devote their lives to being incredible and absolutely at the top, winning. And we admire these people.

I admire them. 'cause I realize I'm not one of them. I like winning. I like, if I'm gonna play football at the weekends, I want to win. But if I'm gonna go out and do a 50 k run through mountains. I'm not gonna win that one. I'm not devoting my whole life to that. So, yeah, I suppose, I love a challenge.

I love trying something that I might not be able to do, and I think that's my big driver with this stuff. And it's the same with anything. It's like success isn't just being the best. At something, success is just doing it. So that's a big part of, I suppose how I [00:02:00] want my children to grow up feeling, do the challenge, whether you'll win it or not.

my employees give it a go. You might not win, you don't need to, but doing it is the important bit. So yeah, it's a big belief of mine.

Sumith Dissanayake: Yeah, no, that's so true. what matters is a journey, not the destination. That's wonderful. And what are the biggest lessons that you have learned from planning the marathon.

Ric Thorpe: That pain is usually temporary. when you're going through hell just keep going. And, and that's a bit of a metaphor for life as well. Like you are gonna have. bad days, you're gonna have bad weeks. Hopefully not bad months or more, but these things do happen. that's my biggest lesson, is actually you go through pain.

The worst one I did was about, I think it, it ended up being about 10 hours and 15 minutes, which I know there are plenty of bigger challenges out there. it was about 45 kilometers. And three and a half thousand meters of [00:03:00] elevation.

only 60 people were mad enough to try it. 58 finished and I came 52nd.

So it's I wasn't close to the top, but I got it done and, and it was incredible. so, I look at people that run businesses and I look at the challenges that they go through. And when it's tough, you think about,how can I, empathize with them? How can I understand exactly what they're going through?

And challenges can be physical, they can be emotional. Can be financial, they can be whatever. But it's try and replicate that in your own life. How can you create these challenges and come out winning, even if you come 52nd out of 58, That's true, but that the experience is more important, right? Whether win or lose winning, of course, you get a bit of a feeling at that point, but what matters is what the experience you had, the connections you have made. Totally. And look, I also realize another metaphor [00:04:00] for this is I could probably prepare better. I could probably be a few kgs lighter. That might mean I finish a bit further up the pack. But, yeah.

Sumith Dissanayake: true. And initially you saw accountancy, as a path to succeed, but didn't feel it was right. So you have changed your perception over time. So tell me about that story of, you going into sales and marketing first, and then you coming back I know you do a certain amount of sales and marketing here, but it's in the accounting industry.

Ric Thorpe: Totally. Totally. And that's it. So I myself am not an accountant. Right. I, pretty sure I never will be. 

Sumith Dissanayake: and the reality is I look at the skills and the capabilities and what my team do training, continually study for, and then the continued professional development and study and it's incredible, right?

Ric Thorpe: And these guys are amazing at what they do. and it is a really tricky job and. I've been hanging around accountants day in, day out for the last 14 odd [00:05:00] years, and I think I know a bit, but then I'll look at one thing and say, oh, so we would do that and a junior accountant will go, no, that's illegal.

You'd have to do it this way or that way. So the nuances are just so, so many. Now I really admire that. I really admire, I think it, it takes a lot of core skills to be good at being an accountant. It's attention to detail. you need a great recall memory. and you also need to be able to follow a lot of processes to get it all right.

And so. I always admired accountants, my dad's friends that were accountants that were very successful. I really admired those, but I kind of looked at it going, that's not my skillset. So I realized probably as a teenager it's I probably want their success, but I don't want their job.

I wouldn't be able to do their job. Right. I followed then, sales and marketing. I was always ambitious, and I always wanted [00:06:00] to, and I've always loved business. and I find that sales and marketing are such a critical part to what a successful business is. So that's exactly what I was doing for the first, seven or eight years of my career, whether it be in web, whether it be, magazine even, web development. Was always in that kind of sales and marketing role. and then at 24 I was approached by this accountancy firm. actually initially I was approached by another firm, for a really senior sales role that would've been absolutely phenomenal.

like traveling to South America regularly from New Zealand, doing like really incredible work. And paying me a lot more than I was paying myself in my own small business. And so I realized I wasn't building the empire I wanted to. and so I thought, okay, I'll put myself back out there and I'll see if, a role works.

And just purely by good fortune, this accountancy firm, then known as [00:07:00] DJCA, was looking to hire a sales person, someone that could train people in systems. Get them on board, speak, business lingo to business owners. and I thought to myself, I'm not sure is this fun?

Is this what I really want to be doing? And I went along to the interview and I met the most incredible people at that stage. And I saw how incredible the culture was in this business at that stage. And I thought, okay, maybe this would work. and I joined and. I can't quite say I haven't looked back since, because truthfully I worked in it for two and a half years left, but then I went back after a year.

And so I love it, and for the last 11 and a bit years I've been back in this role, I became an owner in the business, 10 years ago. we've since grown. we've now got a team of, 60 in our group that's very quickly about to turn into 75 through a kind of merger. And then we're looking at others, other opportunities as well.

So [00:08:00] I love growth, I love business, and accountancy just gives you so many opportunities and skills an exposure to all of that. So that's what I really love. And all the incredible clients that you see along the way.

Sumith Dissanayake: Yeah, 

that's a wonderful story, mate I think, running an accounting firm is not only the technicality, right? There's another hack that's the sales and marketing is a bigger portion of that as well. we supplement it really nicely for the accountants so that they can focus on delivering the outcome for their clients, in most cases, more exceeding their expectation because the sales and marketing is a bigger burden for accounting, which I know very well myself.

Ric Thorpe: often, that's down to, what's your sweet spot? where do you enjoy working Now I wouldn't even be able to do a GST return, right? I'm the least formally educated person, pretty much in this whole group. I'm just lucky that they elected me into the role that I've got, 

Sumith Dissanayake: But the thing is it's gives the Peace of mind. this is one of the reasons why a lot of [00:09:00] accountants still stuck in the game, and they don't want to go into the public practice because they know that, yes, of course I can do the job, but you have to find clients, you have to brand yourself.

there's another portion of things that you have never exposed to, never seen before.

Ric Thorpe: Absolutely. And look, to be honest, hey, if, if people are listening to this and thinking that about themselves, please do search me out, right? Because the truth of it is, that's exactly what I wanna offer. there are so many facets to running a business, and those facets don't actually make you any better at that business or any better for your clients.

what I love is. Ambitious accountants that love the work that they do, love the support that they give their clients and their relationships, but they just don't want to have to deal with all the technology, all of the suppliers, all of the hr, all of their stuff that it's either compliance or it's just, you just have to do it, to, to [00:10:00] exist if that's your biggest headache.

that's who I really want to help because, it then allows the talented accountants to go and do what they're really good at and not have to forsake their success. But because they don't have skills in other areas, and ambitious accountants is exactly what I'm after. 

Sumith Dissanayake: We are on the Ambitious Accountants Podcast.

Ric Thorpe: funnily enough, there are actually three other traits, that we look for. And I dunno if I'd shared this with you before, but it's quite funny how in line this is with our brand, right? and I've spoken about this for the whole 14 years that I've been part of Sidekick, and it's that we look for swans.

So it is people that are smart, they work hard, they're ambitious, and they're nice,

if they are all for, we've definitely got a home for them. but yeah, you can never train ambition and you can never train. Nice.

Sumith Dissanayake: I think you apply the same principle when you are sourcing the clients as well,

Ric Thorpe: totally, totally.

Sumith Dissanayake: is that you're trying to sort of, make sure that [00:11:00] you know your clients and the partners are all coming from that so that you can see the synergies.

Ric Thorpe: Absolutely. Yeah. that's the critical thing I think in most relationships. you can't be heading in two different directions and expect success. you've really gotta hold the same core values and wants, in all honesty for clients, you don't have to be that smart.

so I love Swans, but ones are also my second favourite and they're close, so, work hard and ambitious. Nice. Great. Love those people. and we always say in our office that the, was the worst. If you just smart work hard and ambitious, we will probably have a horrible relationship.

Right. We really do care that you're nice.

Sumith Dissanayake: No, I can relate to what you say, of course. Yeah, that's, Sometimes, the two smart people can't work together. Right. So you have to have some kind of a 

level where, Yeah. 

Ric Thorpe: and actually I would say that I don't actually think that n anyone is like not smart, right? They are, [00:12:00] they've got, they've always got skills and real specialties in, in other areas where they are then mind blowing. So yeah, 

Sumith Dissanayake: yeah, It's, it's all about the subject. when it comes to, say, accounting. clients need to. Understand the fact that we are the experts in the room. So, get our advice and follow that process rather than you're trying to do it yourself.

Ric Thorpe: totally. Yeah. Yeah. And that, I mean, that, that's business, isn't it? We're we only exist to solve other people's problems. If you're not solving somebody's problem, you don't really have a business, 

Sumith Dissanayake: it's no point. you hiring an accountant with the right skillset and then you tell him what to do. Rather you get the advice from the expert in the market.

Ric Thorpe: Totally. Yeah. Yeah,

Sumith Dissanayake: Perfect. I know for a fact that, you are now, prototyping. Maybe you are sort of, trialling a robo in your business.

So tell me more about that. That's very exciting things to hear.

Ric Thorpe: yeah. Yeah, definitely. I am not a subject expert on this, I'll be honest. Okay. So my predecessor, in a similar role to me was [00:13:00] driving this and, my business partners care greatly about it. So, but I can describe what we're doing so. We're employing now, RPA, so robotic process automation, because right now we are responsible for about three and a half thousand tax returns out of Xero.

probably individual tax returns on top of that. possibly about 6,000 actually people, And then we have, growth planned of 50% more than that, within the year. So we are talking 10,000 tax returns plus, so much of that job is the same 10,000 times over across our whole group, and currently people do it now. We don't wanna replace the role of people, but if we can save them time, they can spend more time being people with our clients and adding far more value. And so just the whole, go here, [00:14:00] click this, download that, click that, put that there. Doing all of that doesn't really need a human. You don't need.

the supercomputer in your head and, you're moving parts to do it if a robot can just do it. And so we are looking at all of these opportunities and I think initial feedback is we might save 30 minutes on the really simple jobs, 90 minutes on ones that are slightly more complex. If we can do that across 10,000 and then 15,000, then that's gonna be absolutely amazing, right?

So, that, that is just so many hours saved and then the client wins because we can deliver this more efficiently. We've saved, let's say it's an average of an hour and a bit, we could have saved 20 odd thousand hours. That's probably, that could be, that's 10 people if they worked full time [00:15:00] and were, a hundred percent productive.

So enormous savings, and it allows those people to, like I say, be human again and have conversations, pick up the phone. Send emails, but maybe try send less emails, build relationships, fact find, solve problems, all the stuff that humans are really awesome at. If we can find that time back then, we're so much better off.

Sumith Dissanayake: Yeah, no, that's the best use of the AI and the automation that you're talking about. you becoming more human so you get more time so that you're not pushing hard and you can play at that level, right? Because when you are under the stress, so you're not human, so you sometimes, your conversation's not nice, your conversation is.

 It hating the relationship then building.

Ric Thorpe: Totally. and do you know what my business partner in Christchurch said it great to a, to an accountant about a month ago They thought that a client was just being quite rude to them and didn't appreciate that they'd done this work and it was correct and it was right and they felt that they deserved.

Some [00:16:00] thanks. The flip side of that is what they'd actually done was they discovered that there'd been a mistreatment of GST for about 18 months, creating a liability in the company of about $15,000 and.

Sumith Dissanayake: Right.

Ric Thorpe: They found that out and sent it on an email on a Friday afternoon and then left the office. 

Sumith Dissanayake: 

Your whole 

weekend is gone. 

Ric Thorpe: that doesn't help a client that kind of ruins their weekend.

 my business partner said to them, he is if you wanna be treated like a human, you better act like one. Right? what do we actually care about?Now? Luckily, we look, we did save that and the client still semi loves us, and we've, eased the pain a bit on that one.

this happened as well because our accountant was just really really, really busy and smashing this before the weekend. if we can save them so much time back so that they can be more human, that everybody wins. And yeah, anyone listening to this, I'm sure you're already smart enough [00:17:00] not to do this, but yeah, never send a 15 grand tax surprise bill on a Friday afternoon and 

close your computer and go, 

Sumith Dissanayake: yeah. No, that's a great advice and it's great anecdotes because end of the day, as accountant, that's one of the challenges we have, like defining the time, especially if you are in a growth trajectory. So that's the biggest thing. if you try to grow without the capacity or having some kind of a plan to absorb the new work while you are maintaining the quality of the work that you already have.

Ric Thorpe: And, and challenges with that as well. you can't just go out and replicate yourself. It's not easy to just go and hire someone with your skills. Yeah, there are real challenges with it. the the first thing I would say to somebody in that scenario is just plan as best you can. and also be intentional about the work that you are doing and the work that you're promising. It's so easy when you are, any accountancy, business, big or small, that you want to take on the clients that are in front of you the odd thing of the, a wallet and a pulse, I even [00:18:00] say if you do estate work, you don't even need the pulse.

You just need the wallet, right? but if you can be selective and you can actually, plan and do the work that you want to do, then. You'll be more profitable, you'll have more enjoyment and, you'll be more systemized. It's way better to be systemized. yeah, planning is critical in any accountancy business or role, I think, and play to your strengths. really good technical accountants. That just don't thrive on advice and client FaceTime, right? That person has so much value. they're great at what they do. So make sure you spend any time doing that and not the other way around. not being dragged into something that you're just not comfortable with.

and it's the same in reverse. I see really good accountants who are great at big picture and strategy and when they spend all of their time doing tax returns ormore technical aspects of accountancy, they're just [00:19:00] frustrated. They're slow. It uses the wrong energy, it drains them. And, yeah, it's really detrimental. So if you can specialize and plan, and then the thing is. Again, the better. The better you do at that, the better you're gonna be as you hire people, as you do grow and scale and automate, is all easier.

Sumith Dissanayake: And I think you also mentioned that. when a client, the AI or anything is good with an advisor. So talk to me about people sometimes they blindly do things right without getting the right advice or having the right people next to you to explore the automation or AI journey.

So is it something that you offer your clients at this point in time for them to explore benefit or the power of AI or automation?

Ric Thorpe: One of our core values is about being connected I'm a big believer that yeah, if we really improve somebody's life and business and all of that, we probably did a little bit of what is probably a very big picture. [00:20:00] I show some clients AI and what it's capable of, and, teach them some of the really basic principles of it about, always make sure it's anonymous.

Whatever you're doing with AI, it makes sure it's anonymous. try and understand its capability and try and get some hacks.I coached the team on it quite a bit around how to just get some hacks and fill gaps in our own abilities, but. I'm scratching the surface. I do not know, I barely know a fraction of it.

And so we often will connect our clients with the experts that we know in the field. There are some amazing people that are already so up to speed with coaching people on how to use AI. So I'd rather my client gets a great result like that and I pass them, To the right person. 

Sumith Dissanayake: So the accountants can play that, role, being the, conduit between the experts, the clients need, because we understand our client's language as well as, we can easily de script the, the expert's advisor, right? Sometimes the experts talk very [00:21:00] high technicality, and then the clients can't understand it.

Ric Thorpe: Totally. Totally. And, and like I say that, that's why connected is one of our, absolute main values because whatever we help our clients with, whether it be technology, whether it be, specific technology like AI or it might be money borrowing, banking, foreign exchange, whatever it is, we don't actually do it.

But we know the people that do, and so we want to 

connect them. 

Sumith Dissanayake: And Ric, I know, because you've got a fairly large accounting business, right? and it's spread. So all throughout the South Island in New Zealand. And one of the things that you use to build your capacity is using an outsource, but you mentioned that you, use many outsourcing providers. So how do you choose the right one to collaborate with?

Ric Thorpe: So, Trial and error is, in all honesty, part of it. we are always happy to take two or three steps forward and appreciate that. Sometimes we [00:22:00] need to take one or two steps back. there are of course always fundamentals that are non-negotiable. it's like trust and professionalism and capability. But you know, the devil's in the details. Sometimes it, it, you can have that and it still doesn't doesn't quite work out. So we've tried a few over the years,across different parts of the world. And, the other thing is that we've done is we don't actually, where you say, you know, we use awe use a few, we don't want to have all our eggs in one basket 

and also different jobs have different criteria that mean that one provider's better than another, and often with daylight in between. And so we have two. Core relationships. and I can speak about them, you know, so we do use connect over in India and they're doing some really impressive stuff there.

 I think they're driving quite a bit around technology at the moment as well, which is exciting. So they're gonna be combining a lot of tech, AI, and human, [00:23:00] engagement. And so they work on a fixed fee, which is relative to your own fee. So it's a bit of an open ledger. it requires a lot of trust both ways, but it, it's good and it does a lot of the work that we need doing. with our own RPA project, we are now working out what place does that still have in our business because it will be a very different engagement once our RPA is working for the 2025 year. and the other thing with this is it's like most things, just always keep reviewing it. In any business you've got, keep reviewing your suppliers and your processes and.

and making sure that they are right and serving you and your clients really well. So that's just something that we're always,, always doing. the next one that we use is, called the Backroom and they are based in the Philippines and south America Now. We have that relationship purely as a result [00:24:00] of, existing relationship that we had with a couple of brothers from down in, Otago, a guys called Scott and Wayne Finlay that we've known for God eons, right?

Known them forever it feels like. we actually bought their accountancy practice in New Zealand, that was using their. Back room, as they call it, overseas, offshoring business. And so we bought their business in 2018. It meant that we were instantly a client of theirs. We love those guys to bits.

And so we still use them a lot now and we then push that out across the rest of our group. So, again, fundamentally relationships are everything, aren't they? 

Sumith Dissanayake: Yeah, 

it's great to hear and from my experience also the outsourcing, the service providers have evolved a lot over the last few years. where they started to now, and they, like what you said, they're also experimenting the AI or automation and trying to improve their game as well.

So, which is a quite nice thing to [00:25:00] have, right? So they're also changing themselves to cater to the new requirements, like what you said when you have the LPA running. So what are they going to do? So how are you going to be relevant in, in your equation?

Ric Thorpe: Absolutely. and critical, because when we think about what offshoring outsourcing is. It typically solves two problems for accountancy firms in New Zealand or Australia or wherever. And the two problems are, it's a very difficult to find these people around locally that are good at what we need them to be good at because we just have a small population and what have you, plus a way smaller number of people going through universities to learn it.

So we've got issues just that there aren't enough people and then the second issue is the ones that you can find, if you can find them, are then really expensive. And so by offshoring or outsourcing, there's a great opportunity to save money there. And so technology could potentially commoditize [00:26:00] both of those big challenges if we can instantly have the capacity of a hundred people in one robot. great. We've solved that problem. And then if it's cheap, great.so two, two big problems solved very quickly. And so I, yeah, I really believe that this space needs to evolve, really rapidly to, because you've still got the clients. You've still got the need; you've still got the relationships and all of that. So, how can it be deployed like that. And ultimately, then again, everybody wins. The existing client wins because they don't need to change supplier. They just have a different delivery method. And most people don't care about how you do the job 

if you do the job. 

Sumith Dissanayake: They got to look after their own affairs, right? It's us to look after our own affairs and make sure that we add some value in the way of, lowering the cost or high-quality outcome for them. That's what matters to them.

Ric Thorpe: Totally. And, and you think about, with your business, which fascinates me, [00:27:00] by using, utilizing more, of this technology. Think about what you could do in terms of service delivery for the same price, be incredible. So, there's so many more things that could be happening, good and intelligent use of, this new technology. 

Sumith Dissanayake: I got one last question for you, Ric. Since you are the expert in sales and marketing, that's our biggest weakness as accountant, especially when we are, coming to the market as practicing accountants. So what. would you advice for, anyone who is thinking of or who has already gone in, but now you feel stuck and wants the support to grow.

So what's the best advice that you can share with them?

Ric Thorpe: If you're out or just about to get out into, your own public practice, business. the sales and marketing things, I would say plan well, the work that you're going to be good at and that you really want to do. Okay, So do it really by design, not by accident, and go and seek out the [00:28:00] clients.

One of the first things I would do is, create a really accurate picture of who it is that you want to be working with. We do it with our, with our clients now have, we've got these three different avatars who kind of make up our perfect client. And we know roundabout how old they are, roundabout where they live.

Male or female, how old? around about how much money do they earn, who do they listen to? What books do they read, what magazines do they read? Where do they hang out online? what are they interested in? what makes them part with their money? what do they actually like spending money on?

And if we can build up that picture. We know that person really well, pretty much as a persona, then we can go and find them. And then the other thing is because we know them so well, we kind of know what their problems are. So what are they gonna part with their hard earned money with or for?

 What are they like? What do they hate? [00:29:00] like really start with the customer that you desperately want to help, that's gonna be profitable for you so that you recognize them when they come along. And you'd crawl over broken glass to get 'em on board as a client, and also be really mindful about, let's say you do that and that goes well, but you're still gonna have some challenges and you're still gonna have some inquiries from people that you perhaps want to help, but it might,you, you've gotta define So I would say with that one, be firm and fair to yourself and to prospective clients. Get them on at the right service level, at the right price point, where you are motivated to do their joband, they're happy to pay you. So it's so easy to underprice win business, then never reprice it, and then you're just stuck in a loop of really low value work that the client doesn't thank you for.

'cause you do it slowly and badly 'cause you're not motivated. and [00:30:00] you think that you're owed some gratitude despite the fact that you've done it slowly and badly because you, underpriced it. So it's such a trap that I see nearly everybody fall into, whereas it's so easy to fix, know your own value and know what you're really good at, and support clients that appreciate that. and then these days, going and finding those clients couldn't be easier. You've got a supercomputer in your pocket, right? you can do your advertising, your photographs, your blogs, your whatever. there's no shortage of leads out there. the key thing is getting the right ones. 

Sumith Dissanayake: That's a great advice the price is not the only, one to play with, right? There's other components that you can go into, like what you said, play for your strengths, and then, define your, client's persona . That's very important so that you are relevant to them, and you can easily relates to where they are, who they are.

Ric Thorpe: And, and you've got experience in there. Like you, you add more value back to them because you look after. All of these kind of [00:31:00] similar people. I suppose that deals a lot with the marketing piece or the, looking at what you're after. When it comes to sales in accountancy, I would strongly advise you follow something like the spin process. So I dunno if, everyone listening to this will be familiar with it, It's a questioning methodology where you are asking about their situation that they're in right now. You know, very broad stroke, what are they up to?

What systems do they use? How much money do they make? What are the kinda want, you know, simple stuff. then you dive into the problems that they might have. So, okay, well you use this system, what problems do You have with that? You know, da, da, da. Then you want to get into the, implication. So, right, well, I've, I've discovered that you've got this problem.

So if that problem carries on, what are the implications of that? How bad does that get? And then this is where you really draw out the pain. you take them to hell, right? Of, to how bad is that problem if we don't fix now? And then the natural [00:32:00] conclusion to that is, okay, so. We need this as the solution. And very often the client will go, yes, I do. You're perfect. It costs this much, and then you say nothing. So that, that would be how I help accountants win work. 

Sumith Dissanayake: love the conversation Ric and thank you very much for being on Ambitious Accountants podcast.

Ric Thorpe: Oh my absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. And, I hope I provided some value to your, ambitious accountants out

there. 

Sumith Dissanayake: Definitely.

Thank you for joining us on Ambitious Accountants. I hope today's conversation has provided valuable insights for your professional journey. Remember, this podcast is about building a community of all Kiwi Accountants who understand the challenges you face and celebrate your success. If you have enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe wherever you get your podcast and share with colleagues who might benefit.

If you have a success story you would like to share on our show, reach out at Sumith@brisca.co.nz [00:33:00]. Until next time, keep ambitious, keep innovating and keep transforming. This is Sumith signing off.